It’s Not Personal, It’s Business: My Dealings with Dayna Martin by guest blogger, Jennifer Vogel McGrail

Unfortunately this is another blog with Dayna Martin as the topic. With all that has been uncovered, it still baffles me that she is not only acting like nothing happened, but is still harming unschoolers that get caught in her wake. The Rethinking Everything Conference ended over 45 days ago. Anyone that has read my other blogs is aware of the 45 day refund promise that Dayna posted months ago. When the blog author requested the refund she was promised and owed, she was met with more blame and manipulation, which is par for the course.

I have written 11 previous blogs about Dayna, you can find a compilation of previous dealings from dozens of people at http://sandradodd.com/problems/daynamartin/ , and you can find Jennifer’s new blog at http://www.jennifermcgrail.com/2013/10/its-not-personal-its-business-my-dealings-with-dayna-martin/?fb_source=pubv1

Please visit Jennifer and comment on her page as you feel inspired. Here is the blog in its entirety………..
It’s Not Personal, It’s Business: My Dealings with Dayna Martin          

by Jennifer Vogel McGrail

"I thought long and hard about posting this. That’s the first thing you need to know. I dislike confrontation, I stay away from drama, and I derive zero pleasure from “rocking the boat.” I questioned whether it was the right thing to do. I didn’t want to do anything that was unkind or unfair, and I knew that to share it meant to share emails that were sent back and forth between myself and Dayna … something I have never, ever done. But then a friend said something to me that brought it into the proper perspective.

“Jen, if you had a bad experience with Target, wouldn’t you share it?” And I would. I would share it widely.

My husband echoed a similar sentiment when he said, “It’s not the same things as sharing personal correspondence. It was business. It was communication between the two of you as business and customer.”

He was right. And in fact it was something that I myself had said to Dayna more than once. ”It’s not personal, it’s business.” I wasn’t interested in the drama or any of her personal back stories. I just wanted the money that I was owed. Nothing else.

I am not writing this to be vindictive, or to start more problems. I am writing this for one reason, and one reason only: This has gone on long enough. If I can prevent even one person from getting hurt – financially or otherwise – by Dayna Martin, it will be worth it.

With that in mind, I’ll do my best to keep all personal commentary out of this, and just stick to the facts at hand. These are the facts:

1. In July of 2013, I, along with lots of other people, was registered to go to the Rethinking Everything Conference in Dallas, TX held from August 22nd through 26th, and hosted by Joe and Dayna Martin. Jen Green, a fellow unschooler, and former friend of Dayna, wrote a series of blog posts chronicling her own dealings with Dayna, and exposing some very poor business practices (to be kind about it) on Dayna’s part. Several other people started coming forward with similar stories, dating back many years, to the extent that this information started being gathered and compiled in order to warn others.

2. I, along with lots of other people, decided I was no longer comfortable going to, and supporting, their conference. We were prepared to eat the cost of our registration ($545 for our family of 6)

3. Dayna posted on the Rethinking Everything page, offering refunds for those who’d decided not to go:

Due to the recent situation with someone slandering me, I wanted to reach out and let any of you know that if you have decided to not attend due to what you read, please let me know and we will refund 100% of your registration. Dayna

4. I emailed her to ask for a refund, and she promptly responded that she’d be “happy” to refund our money. (I’ll share those emails later)

5. A few days later, she changed her mind and stated that she’d no longer be offering refunds.

6. I emailed her again, seeking clarification about whether or not I’d still receive one, since she’d already told me I would. ”Oh yes, you’re all set Jennifer. You’ll receive your refund within 45 days after the conference is over.” I think this is as good a time as any to point out that 45 days also happens to be the time limit in which Paypal allows you to dispute a charge.

7. After 45 days came and went, I politely sent another follow-up email asking about our refund, again giving her the benefit of the doubt that she’d decide to do the right thing. She didn’t respond. Or rather, she responded by unfriending me and blocking me on Facebook.

And this is where the story really begins.

Next, I tried appealing to Joe:

Hi Joe,
I am writing to you because Dayna isn’t returning my emails. Back in July, we requested a refund for the RE conference, and she said that she’d be happy to give it to us, within 45 days after the conference was over. I followed up with her in August after she’d announced that you’d no longer be issuing refunds, just to clarify, and again she told me that we were all set, and that we’d receive a refund.
It’s now been more than a week past that 45 day timeframe. I sent a follow-up to Dayna to check on the status of our refund, and she responded by unfriending and blocking me on Facebook.
I don’t want to start any drama or problems. I stayed out of the whole mess that took place over the summer, as I don’t know either of you personally. We’d just like the refund that was promised to us by Dayna. I’m sure you can understand that $530 is a lot of money for a single-income family of six.
I’d really appreciate a quick resolution, as we were told that we would in fact be issued a refund.
Thanks in advance for your attention to this matter.

He very quickly responded (although due to writing style I believe it was Dayna who replied under his account):

Jennifer, We made a decision to go with the original payment information and have registrations be non-refundable – as stated on the website. We are offering people registration to the Life Rocks! Conference and we encourage you to connect with the new organizer of RE to see if they will extend your reg to RE 2014. The 2013 RE Conference was a success and we are sorry you missed it.

That was when I took to my own Facebook wall for some venting, without (at first) naming any names. A little immature to deal with it in that passive-aggressive way, especially knowing full well that it was going to get back to them? Sure. I’ll own that. But I hadn’t done anything wrong, and was being given nothing but a big run-around (again, to put it kindly)
My husband then decided to message Joe:

Hello Joe,
Jen received your response to the request for a refund of the RE Conference registration fees and I thought that I would contact you directly. I am quite disappointed that as a business person you have decided not to honor your 2 promises to refund our money. After reading all the drama about your personal and business issues this summer, I would have thought that you would have tried to conduct your business more on the up and up.
Unfortunately, you tell us that “you have decided to go with the original payment information as stated on the website”. It really doesn’t matter what the website stated when we were given a personalized assurance that we WILL receive a refund. What was the purpose of offering refunds in the first place? Was it to try and keep people quiet and then hope we go away? Joe, we’re not going away on this, just on principle alone. Unfriending people and blocking them on Facebook doesn’t right your wrongs.
We have copies of Dayna’s two emails assuring us that we will get a refund. As a business person you should honor EVERYTHING that you say to a customer, even if it has to come out of pocket and you lose on the transaction.
I am hoping that as a business person you will reconsider your decision not to refund our money. We are prepared to take a stand on this matter and make it known that you are not running an honest and reputable business, if you do not make this right. Jen has been nothing but respectful, professional and polite regarding this whole thing.
If you haven’t visited her The Path Less Taken Facebook page, you should take note she has nearly 6,000 unschooling followers who may not take kindly to your slight of the few whom you offered refunds. Not a good stand to take on so few people.
I look forward to seeing your refund in our account within the next 5 days, or we will be forced to escalate our collections.
All the best,
Mike McGrail

Joe never responded, and instead I almost immediately heard the ding of a message to myself, from Dayna (who’d unblocked me so that she could message me.)
Here’s what I want to know: How does an interaction that all began like this:

Jennifer,
We are happy to issue you a refund. You will receive the refund for registration within 45 days after the Rethinking Everything event. If you have any questions, please let us know.
We hope you can attend in the future.
~Kind Regards, Dayna

Turn into this:

Anyway, there were no “promises”. It was an email I sent to you, thinking you were involved/personally affect by the drama somehow. You were not. Hence the refund didn’t apply to you. To have your husband write and threaten me is just beyond cruel, especially after all that our family has been through. Please do not hurt us.

and this:

I’m sorry, Jennifer, but you contacted me initially knowing what the refund was about and who it was for.
and I feel like you were taking advantage of it at a time in my life when I was in crisis. It just isn’t right.

and this:

It doesn’t matter what I emailed to you. I *thought* you were being honest with me about being personally involved simply by your contacting me for a refund. Once I learned you weren’t I felt hurt and taken advantage of. For you to claim that it doesn’t matter that I found this out after I emailed you about refunding you is manipulative and wrong. I consider this matter closed.

and this:

I want to point out that you were attempting to sell your tickets before any of this online drama occurred. You had no intention of coming to RE to begin with. I have proof of that. For you to attempt to say that you were affected by what happened to me and then decided not to come is manipulative and dishonest and wrong. What happened was not business. It was and is personal. I did nothing to create all that happened and someone tried to hurt my family. It was devastating and for YOU to attempt to capitalize on that and then actually THREATEN me wit further action is wrong Jennifer. You know you are in the wrong here. Stop threatening me with further action to something that you attempted to be dishonest about. You didn’t decide not to come because of all that happened. YOU decided not to come because you couldn’t afford it. That is the Truth. Please stop sending me threats and attempting to fear me into refunding money that was clearly non-refundable.
Also, for you to say you want someone to “fight” me is hurtful and scary to me. Are you really going to take violent action against me?

* A couple of side-notes here: That entire last message was mostly lies. We didn’t try to sell our tickets before any of it happened, so she has no proof of that. Dayna and I would later go on to discuss that. As to the: ”You decided not to come because you couldn’t afford it”: I mentioned in an earlier message that we had the money earmarked to give away to someone else at Christmas, since it was already money we’d spent and wanted to do something good with it, which she took to read: ”We can’t afford to have a Christmas.” We discussed that later too. And as utterly ridiculous it is to even dignify it with a response: When I first vented about how angry I was on Facebook, a friend commented and joked, “Do you want me to fight someone for you?” I joked back and answered simply, “Yes, yes I do.” Then she posted a little meme with some Muppets – MUPPETS – that said, “I’ll fight anyone, anytime, anywhere.” I had a chuckle and we all moved on. And finally, this is just a small sampling of Dayna’s emails. I didn’t post my responses, or the rest of hers, mainly because this was long enough and they were all pretty redundant. She told me how manipulative and hurtful I was being, and I told her all I wanted was the refund she owed me.*

This is just her M.O. If you read even just a few of the stories I linked to up above, you see it again and again and again. In fact, when I mentioned this to a friend who’s had her own up close and personal dealings with Dayna, the first thing she said was, “Everything is now turned around to be your fault, right?” Dayna’s the victim. She did nothing wrong. I wanted the refund I was entitled to, period, and I was the bad guy.

In the interest of telling the entire story, I should also add that after that last message, Dayna (very abruptly) changed her tune:

I want to honor and respect where you are at. I understand your perspective and want to be a good business person about how it all went down. I truly want to work together so you can come away from this happy somehow. Your feelings and needs are important to me.
….
It wasn’t my intention to be “cruel,” nor was it yours, I am sure.
I apologize if I called you that or made you feel bad. It wasn’t my intention.
….
I want to help make it right. I truly do. You feelings are important to me as a fellow mother and woman.

Here’s the problem. Even if she was being sincere about wanting to make things right (which if she really was, she would have simply refunded the money, instead of telling me she “didn’t have it” and suggesting I take it up with my credit card company) that doesn’t help all the other people who were wronged here. It doesn’t help the people who saved up all year to go to this conference and then, like me, were denied a refund. It doesn’t help the many people who’ve messaged me the past few days to thank me for talking publicly about this, or the people who told me that if we started a class action lawsuit, they wanted to be the first to sign up.

It’s for those people that I’m writing.

Too many people have been hurt, and not all of them have the forum or the wherewithal to make it public.

It stopped being about the money a long time ago. I don’t even care about the money anymore. I do however, greatly care about my fellow unschoolers, and to see this happen again, and again and again and again, just isn’t right.

So my open comment to Dayna – to everyone really – is this: What could make this right? Make apologies to those you’ve wronged. Give refunds to the people who are due them. Be honest.

In the words of Henry David Thoreau, “Be true to your word, your work, and your friend.”

Do the right thing."

Unschooling, Agendas, and Accidental Lessons

I have NEVER been a conventional person and I don't mix well with societal people. You know, the ones with all the rules. Let’s face it, you can't be normal and be an unschooler, right? The last 6 months have been full of change for the Green family. Some changes were painful, some simply involved finding a new perspective, and some were excellent alterations that propelled us toward our dreams a little faster. I am fully accepting of the idea that all events are beneficial, even when the benefit isn't immediately noticed. The more important aspect of this benefit, though, is the requirement that you work through the absolute gut wrenching shit in your own time and on your own terms. At its essence, this is a principle of unschooling itself. Our children have the right to determine their own benefits in their own time, without outside interference, as well. Support and conversation, yes! Controlling when and how processes are worked through, no! So what brings all of this up? We are moving. We are giving up our future, our nest egg, our token that we have earned a place in the normal people hall of fame. What will we ever do without this money pit? I can't tell you how much I will miss paying those school taxes. As with any change we adopt, this move is an unconventional one. We are moving in with another family, in to an even smaller space, and it will be cramped. It will force planning and conversation and respect of others needs. I am so ready for this challenge that I have been excited about this move since the day we decided to jump all the way in to the possibilities. I don't see one problem with this venture, but let me tell you, not everyone feels this way.

We don't have many fans, but man, my best friend, Kristen, has no fans. Her mom calls her daily to let her know how she isn't living up to expectations. Why are you helping them and not your "homeless" pregnant sister? Don't let people use you! Don't move to your dad’s house because you will regret it! Don't take your daughter out of school! Don't take the baby to a sitter! Cut your hair! You don't get to pick where you want to eat for your birthday because it’s not about you! Her ex-husband threatens her almost daily too. Bring the kids over now or I will take you to court! You weren't working; you were out drinking with friends! You don't care about your kids; all you care about is money! Don't take the kids to daycare, you are a crap mom! Don't you dare let the Greens move in or I will fight for full custody!

No one seems to realize that this has nothing to do with them. Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean you have to share it. But to set some uncomfortable people at ease, I am letting you know we have thought this through, I promise. We are doing it to help each other because we can, because we choose to, kids included. So here is the run down:

·         House prices went up, so its a great time to sell.

·         Both families want to minimize unneeded "stuff. This will do it.

·         We have 3 houses and an RV to work with here. Space is available.

·         Eating healthier will be easier. Canning and juicing also easier.

·         We can share kid responsibilities.

·         We can ready our empty house to sell.

·         We will remodel the 3rd house to get it ready to move in to.

·         The 2nd house can then be ready to sell.

·         We will be able to sell our current RV and buy our new one while having a place to stay.

·         And lastly, this is not forever.

We will be on the road full time before we know it, so why can't best friends enjoy being near each other? Everything that has happened has simply set this process in motion. I have learned that if I can survive the abuse of a sociopath, then I can survive anything. I will say that you really realize what is important and that is family. Honesty and openness are still two of the most integral parts of my being and I cherish them for sustaining me. I have learned that giving a close friend too many chances will end up hurting only me in the end. Listen to your intuition because it will dig at you until you finally get the message. Don't let anyone tell you how or when to work through a tough lesson. Those people are not there for you, they have their own agenda. When a "friend" tells you that you are not welcome to attend unschooler park days because no one wants you there, definitely follow up with others because, again, this friend has their own agenda that you have nothing to do with. That is really what this blog is about........other people's agendas. I am on a juice fast and even that pisses people off. Why do I have to eat just because you say it's time?

So lessons reflected on from this year:

·         Respect the process.

·         Follow your intuition.

·         Cut people out of your life that speak judgment of others in every sentence.

·         Love your family.

·         Home is wherever you are.

·         See the world. Travel and let go of meaningless attachments.

·         Don't be attached to other people's version of what is right for you.

·         Fiber is not god. Nutrients are.

·         Real friends don't lie or "stay under the radar" to play both fields.

·         Love is the only thing that matters.

·         Let your children know that sometimes being nice isn't the answer.

·         Telling people to get over shit only serves to compound the pain.

·         Accept people where they are. The process will benefit them eventually.

·         What you do with your life is no one else's business, but they will think it is until you make that very clear.

·         Unschooling supports the love of learning, so let’s be ok with the learning path of others.

·         Don't do things for others so you can hold it against them later.

·         Sometimes anger is the most loving thing there is. Let the light break through.

·         Enjoy the ride. That is what we are here for.

 

Jen – the unschooly, dreaded, juice fasting, college student.

Watching the Unschooling Pieces Crumble - Part 11 of Dealings With a Guru

More from Patti........

Well, here we are again and I suppose I can no longer pretend I am done. The information that is continuing to come out in the Clearinghouse group is no less than astounding. I cannot believe the length of time Dayna has been using and manipulating people. I also cannot believe how many individuals have been frightened of the Martin family; so frightened that people have held on to things for years. It is almost like they are mob bosses and they will put a hit out on anyone that dares to cross them, or should I say, anyone that treats them the way they treat others. If one thing has become clear throughout this fact checking, though, it is that unschooling will be fine. Discovering numerous pockets of people that have never even heard of the Martin Machine has been a wonderful side effect of this whole ordeal. Thank you again to every single person that has come forward with information, so the full picture can be realized and we can all go on with our lives, eventually. Know that we are all working to leave behind a more cohesive community than what existed just a few months ago. Unschooling rules and I don’t mean the Martin version of unschooling, but the true, deep, need we have within us to love the world and spread the peace. We are all working toward supporting a better world for our children and grandchildren. For those of you who still do not understand what all the fact checking is about, I hope you never have to find out. And for those who are disappointed in me for supporting peace in a not so peaceful way, you hold that burden yourself. I am doing something about it. What have you done today to ensure that liars and manipulators are not running our lives?

As with every new blog I post, there are a few new pieces of information that have been learned. This post is centered around an email exchange that occurred between Patti Stephens and Dayna Martin about a week ago. The comment that elicited this conversation was a post by Dayna herself, where she claimed to have private conversations between her daughter and Patti’s daughter. I have to admit that I got a little concerned. I had known that Tiff and Syd had been talking and I also knew that Syd had claimed she was just trying to get Dayna to talk to her and explain why she is lying about all of us to other people. I did, for a split second, think that maybe there were messages I had not heard of and maybe they had been deleted. Once Dayna forwarded the conversations, I found that they were the exact thing I had already read and said nothing like she had claimed they did.

The other topic I am covering is the fact that someone has started a blog with a name very similar to my own and they are hacking in to blogs belonging to others and changing the URL that links to my blog. Here is the IP information forwarded by someone researching the incident……

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]

Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\...>nslookup theunschoolinggreenfamily.blogspot.com

Server: homeportal

Address: 192.168.1.254

Non-authoritative answer:

Name: blogspot.l.googleusercontent.com

Addresses: 2607:f8b0:4006:802::100c

173.194.43.11

173.194.43.10

173.194.43.12

Aliases: theunschoolinggreenfamily.blogspot.com

C:\Users\...>nslookup thesparklingmartins.blogspot.com

Server: homeportal

Address: 192.168.1.254

Non-authoritative answer:

Name: blogspot.l.googleusercontent.com

Addresses: 2607:f8b0:4006:802::100a

173.194.43.10

173.194.43.11

173.194.43.12

Aliases: thesparklingmartins.blogspot.com

 It is difficult to spot what they did if you do not know what to look for, but they simply moved the position of the word “THE”. My blog is called Unschooling the Green Family and the decoy they created is called The Unschooling Green Family. If you have not had the pleasure of seeing their blog, it states this…………

get a life green

Wednesday, July 17, 2013

good grief

Good grief. Don't you have better things to do than dig up a quarrel you had with someone months ago? Wasn't that done and over with?

What's done is done. Move on. Go play with your kids. You are unschoolers, right? Go be with you kids in positive and productive ways.

And the rest of you, seriously, why did you click on this link to begin with?  To read about gossip?? To bash someone else?? Is this what homeschoolers do now in their free time?? Shame on you.

Before I go on to the information regarding Patti, I would also like to share a PM that my friend Robert received from Joe. Joe had already been blocked by Robert, so he used his other account to send it. Joe claims that he does not bully or attack people, but there are numerous occasions where he has done just that. Robert did not respond, but did give me permission to share the message here. Keep in mind, Robert has done nothing to provoke this, aside from sharing his own truth with others who have asked him…..………..

 July 31st:

Really You're going to bully folks too? When will this madness end? Do you all want Dayna to fuckin kill herself? Your all grabbing at nothing. There is no FRAUD. She is still a unschooling advocate no matter what she does on her days off. Your not seeing it like it truly is. Your taking the word of folks that are out to get us. Picking on project we start and don't finish. Are you fucking kidding me. How many things have you started and just left on the shelf. My lawn is half mowed too. Want me to take a photo so you can show that to every one. What the hell man? You think we faked Liferocks just made all that shit up every word that was said the whole dads group chat all just fake? You have seen part of the doc I filmed. This is past the point of crazy. So stand on what you KNOW and not what others have fed you.

So here is the post from Dayna where she threatened having screenshots of messages between the two kids…..

I have screenshots of Patti's daughter Sydney, messaging my daughter Tiffany telling her that Jen Green has gone over their house and screamed and sworn at her telling her to write negative accusations about me and this little girl is scared. It is beyond abuse and manipulation.

And here is the message from Patti and the email exchanges between Patti and Dayna…………

From Patti Stephens……

“I have debated for the better part of a week whether or not I wanted to release my email exchange with Dayna that centered around her using Sydni’s private conversations with her daughter, Tiffany, to try to “discredit” Jennifer.  The email exchange speaks for itself.   I have, throughout the majority of this ordeal, just wanted it to go away.  That’s how I deal with bad stuff.  Just move on.  Don’t dwell on it.  Find the good.  Learn  from the mistakes.  Period.  However, a number of things are different with this particular situation:  (1) this effected my kids, primarily my oldest, in a HUGE way and so the moving on is not so easy, (2) the Martins just keep on stoking the fire with denial and blame and it just doesn’t feel right to not put the facts out there and (3) soooo many other people have been hurt before me and the need for folks to have access to factual information is critical so that, hopefully, others will think twice before giving them a dime or even falling for the Martin Marketing Machine. I am not so much concerned anymore that Dayna didn’t perform her unnanny duties.…I am furious at the extent she and Joe seem to be going to lie, manipulate, bully and distort any sense of the truth so that they can just continue on being “The Martins, Unschoolers Extraordinaire”.

So, folks, here it is..I really hope I am done with this and can move on.  I totally support the bigger picture of accountability and facts and all…I just have to let this go.  I have to remove myself for a while and get my energy to a much higher level so I can shift us to a different path…not a different life learning path…I still believe in it…but a different daily path…that is about connection and love and joy and learning…not about escaping and coping and just getting by…and wondering what the latest lie or accusation is.  We’ll be ok….and that starts with me.” 

From: Dayna Martin dayna@daynamartin.com

To: Patti Stephens patti.stephens@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: screen shots

Patti,

What is going on here? Why is all of this being so blown up into such a hurtful thing. CPS was called on me because of Jenn's blog. This is MY LIFE here. My children... my family.

I made some big mistakes there, but no one deserves this. It is beyond hurtful.

I wanted to write to you to reach out for your compassion and understanding.

I have screen shots of Tiffany and Sydni discussing the manipulation that Jenn has used with her to get her to say negative things about me. Tiff showed them to me. Also, Syd messaged me personally and I told her that I wasn't comfortable talking to her unless you were comfortable with it. We did chat briefly, and she said you wanted me to send you an email.

I am a good person and I don't deserve this. Please forgive me for not following through with working with you. I said things in a drunken state that I didn't mean and I am so regretful of that. I truly loved your family. Please let Jenn know that I have proof of her manipulating your family and have her contact me so we can talk. Barb has the screen shots also and they are very incriminating and will disprove some of what Jen is claiming and show that you all were bullied and manipulated into speaking out against me. Before I went public with them, I wanted to reach out and try to go a kinder route and see what unfolded.

Thank you and please, call me so we can talk or email so we can work this out and move forward.

Love, Dayna

Also, Patti... I don't want to hurt Syd. Tiff promised her, which is seen on the several screen shots, that she wouldn't tell anyone what Syd told Tiff. I just want this all to end and work it out in a way that it should be dealt with... privately. Tiff did say, however that she is willing to allow them to be posted publicly so people can know the truth of this aspect of the story/blog.

From: patti.stephens@yahoo.com

To: dayna@daynamartin.com
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: screen shots

 Patti: 

 

"I, quite frankly, am stunned at your email.  On so many levels.  So I will dissect your email and address your specific questions/comments in the order of importance to me:"

Dayna: 

“Also, Patti... I don't want to hurt Syd. Tiff promised her, which is seen on the several screen shots, that she wouldn't tell anyone what Syd told Tiff. I just want this all to end and work it out in a way that it should be dealt with... privately. Tiff did say, however that she is willing to allow them to be posted publicly so people can know the truth of this aspect of the story/blog.”

 Patti:

“Sydni's well being, as that of my other children, is of my utmost concern.  Really, Dayna, if you truly don't want to hurt Sydni, you would not have even sent this email.  Publishing her and Tiffany's private conversation wouldn't even be a thought. Sydni has already been hurt..in ways this mother never, ever could have imagined.  The behaviors I needed help with... (anger due to her feelings of abandonment, lies, manipulation, adults saying one thing and doing something else) you simply contributed to.  Her desperation to try to connect with you via Tiffany...to try to gain some closure...to know you were ok...to try to gain some understanding that you really did care about her...that was her intent in talking to Tiffany since you unfriended her and she could not speak with you directly???  How in the hell can you tell me you have Sydni's well being at heart when you disconnected yourself from her almost immediately after leaving here??  And you now want to publish their conversation to try to make some point about Jen to the larger community???  I think not.  You may have Tiffany's permission but you don't have Sydni's...”

 Dayna:

“I have screen shots of Tiffany and Sydni discussing the manipulation that Jenn has used with her to get her to say negative things about me. Tiff showed them to me......Please let Jenn know that I have proof of her manipulating your family and have her contact me so we can talk. Barb has the screen shots also and they are very incriminating and will disprove some of what Jen is claiming and show that you all were bullied and manipulated into speaking out against me. Before I went public with them, I wanted to reach out and try to go a kinder route and see what unfolded”

 Patti:

“THIS feels so threatening and manipulative to me.  I have read the entire conversation between Tiffany and Sydni.  NOWHERE in there did Sydni say or even imply that Jen was "bullying and manipulating any of us into speaking out against me".  Nowhere!!!  Did she say Jen yelled?  Yes. Period.  And that Jen said you are a "motherfucking liar..that motherfucker is who has been lying to everyone".  And for the record, neither of us has been bullied, coerced, manipulated in any shape form or fashion to speak our truth.  What I see in those PM's is your daughter desperately trying to make the pain and sadness in her home stop.  Sydni is not responsible for this. I am not responsible for this.  Jen is not responsible for this.  Your choices, regardless of how regretful or shameful or damaging, are responsible for this.  You get to control that, not us.  I am not responsible for Jen's truth but I completely support her in sharing her truth just as I would welcome and support you sharing your truth.”

 Dayna:

“Also, Syd messaged me personally and I told her that I wasn't comfortable talking to her unless you were comfortable with it. We did chat briefly, and she said you wanted me to send you an email.”

 Patti:

“As much as I wanted to "control" Sydni's conversations with you at times, I would never do this.  Sydni has been hurt and she loves you and she believed in you and how you could help our family.  I knew/ know she needs to grieve in her own way and try to find the resolution and closure for herself.  I fully support this if it means talking to you. That she had to beg and beg and beg (which is obvious from those PM's) is heartbreaking to say the least. My "comfort" is irrelevant in this instance though I do appreciate your checking with her. I actually told Sydni that if you wanted to chat with me, it would be fine to email.  That was last Friday.  Honestly, I feel if you had wanted to just chat with me to "clear the air" you would have done that sooner and not in the context of "I have incriminating private FB messages between our kids".....”

 Dayna:

“I wanted to write to you to reach out for your compassion and understanding.”

 Patti:

“You have NO IDEA how much compassion I have for your children...understanding for the bigger picture is much harder to come by.  I hurt for your children because they are simply the victims of the choices of their parents.  It took me a while after you left to even begin to understand the magnitude of all this. I did this on my own (no pressure from Jen or anyone else)...reading story after story of people who had experiences with you long before me...some personal, some professional.  This obviously was not an isolated instance and that allowed me to put it all into its proper perspective.”

 Dayna:

“I am a good person and I don't deserve this. Please forgive me for not following through with working with you. I said things in a drunken state that I didn't mean and I am so regretful of that. I truly loved your family.”

 Patti:

“I have forgiven you.  It is the only thing that allows me to move forward, heal, and continue on our unschooling path.”

 Dayna:

“What is going on here? Why is all of this being so blown up into such a hurtful thing. CPS was called on me because of Jenn's blog. This is MY LIFE here. My children... my family.”

 Patti:

 

“What is going  on here in my opinion?  The truth continues to elude you.  Me, personally...so willing to forgive and move on...bad experience...your personal life crossed into your professional life...you made a mistake...you will go home and take responsibility and make amends and seek the help you obviously need (from the behaviors and conversations that took place in my home).  But you didn't, Dayna.  You made it about all of us.  "Our family was a trauma case".  "I just hired you to get the kids off my back and get a break."  "You bit off more than you could chew". (even though you knew exactly the dynamics after the first visit).  And the blaming and lack of responsibility or ownership just continues and continues with each post.  Again, I cannot do ANYTHING to fix that.  You can. So for your children...your family...I hope from the depths of my soul you can find a way to deal in truth...real truth...not the truth you want folks to believe...YOUR TRUTH...because "what is going on here" will not change until that happens. Patti “   

From: Dayna Martin <dayna@daynamartin.com>

To: patti.stephens@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: screen shots

 

Patti, I was trying to do the right thing per advice from Barb Lundgren to reach out to you via email and share that I had the screen shots. I am sorry you are feeling angry and took this in the way it wasn't intended. I send you love and healing. Dayna

From:  patti.stephens@yahoo.com

To:  Dayna Martin <dayna@daynamartin.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013  11:41 AM
Subject:  Re:  screen shots

Dayna:  I am actually feeling much better, thanks:-)  Did you really expect me to not be upset that you are dragging my 10 year old into your public personal experience? What you are using my daughter for is to try to discredit your personal relationship with Jen (which has nothing to do with either me or Sydni).  I think your intention was "before I went public with them, I wanted to reach out and try to go a kinder route and see what unfolded."  I truly don't know how much more of a kinder route you wanted from me.  I still hope you will do the right thing. Patti

As I was writing this, my daughter, Taylor (Sydni…note she has decided she wants to change her name for a fresh start and because she feels it fits her more) wanted to say something so her thoughts and feelings will close our part of this blog out:

Taylor (Sydni):            

First of all, I think that Dayna is the best example of a fraud. PERIOD. Of course some of you think I’m lying, but I’m not. My experience with “Dayna Martin” was something I wish never happened. You didn’t see Jenn, how horrible she felt, that was real. How Dayna was acting. WAS AND IS SO FAKE. I can’t believe I thought she loved me, cared about me, here is just a small piece of her trying to get rid of me:

Dayna Martin

I didn't unfriend you
I don't want you to get into trouble
so we can say goodbye

Taylor Stephens

Ok??

Dayna Martin

I want to respect your Mom
and you

Taylor Stephens

R u sure its cause u don't want to talk to me

Dayna Martin

Of course not. I know you didn't do anything wrong.
No matter what, I will always hold you in a special place in my heart
I am sorry that I did anything to hurt your family
I am sending love to you all.

So umm, yeah, tell me what that shit sounds like?? BTW what Dayna said about those screenshots, Jenn didn’t and won’t EVER force me to do ANYTHING……EVER. Tiff actually told me and kept telling me to friend, and message Dayna…..umm HELLO?!?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?! YOU MESSAGE ME! YOU FRIEND ME! WOW. She was too lazy to go to MY PAGE, FRIEND ME, AND MESSAGE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just want you to know, I feel like a bitch trusting her, and Jenn’s just trying to help people not make the same mistake my family did. LETTING DAYNA IN OUR HOME.

Taylor

Watching the Unschooling Pieces Crumble - Part 10 of Dealings With a Guru

The blog that should not even need to happen….

I had placed my blog on the backburner so that I could release the hold that my experience had on me and allow others to move in to the forefront to reflect on their own dealings with the Martins. It did not take long before I was invited to a group on facebook that would serve as a database of collected facts and personal experiences regarding Dayna and her multiple business ventures. This clearinghouse page is a temporary tool that will be used to create a final document of facts to showcase Dayna and her dealings with the public. This group is not a free-for-all as only individuals with solid data have the ability to add factual information that is being followed-up on and researched. The truths being uncovered are immensely disturbing to me, but it is crystal clear that it is necessary, at the same time. Dayna is good at her day job. She has managed to manipulate and defraud families for a decade or more. You can view the collected data here……………..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/414499508667539/?fref=ts

It has been brought to my attention that although Rethinking Everything Conference refunds were offered a few weeks ago, that agreement has now been withdrawn and registration is now completely non refundable, even for those that were affected by the deceit. There are differing reasons why people are choosing to request refunds, but they almost all boil down to the fact that the product is not what they originally paid for. I would like to request that those of you who find yourself in this position, file a complaint with your credit card company and send them any factual information you have.

The following posts have been made by members of the Martin family the last few days………….

When Dayna was asked why she could not just be honest and stop deleting messages, Dayna responded with this statement, before going on to talk about her personal feelings in the same group….…..

“This group is about the RE conference and as I told you, if you want to discuss my personal life further, you can continue to message me like you have. This is crossing in to harassment at this point.”

From Joe Martin:

“ok this is gone on long enough. All you mean ass bullying ass woman, mothers, leave my fuckin wife and family alone. You call yourselves advocates for family. Your all evil and cold. Nothing more. (make sure you screen capture that)”

My response:

I agree that the lies have gone on long enough. I would like to put this behind me, but the manipulation of the public and the fraud that we are uncovering honestly seems never ending. I know that you may see this as some “witch hunt”, but we are actually BEING advocates for families. We are all working on this to protect these very families from the assault that Dayna has dished out for years. Evil and cold are the last thing that we are. We truly care about our children. We do not wish for them to be used as pawns in your chess game any longer.

From Dayna Martin (posted in the RE conference group):

“There are no "sides" to take with this issue. It has gone from my personal Facebook account being exploited and used to send my personal messages to others. I have been threatened with messages such as, "Ha ha! you're goin' down, Sweetheart."

I have been bullied, lied about slandered and hurt beyond anything I have ever experienced before. CPS showed up on our doorstep yesterday because of this issue. They are returning this Friday. This is my worst nightmare and it is all because of this insane blog. I would never, ever, in a billion years do the extreme things that I am being accused of. HOW can I fight this except to reach out and ask you all for help.

I've made some mistakes, but NO ONE deserves this and to view it as the writings from a sane person is mindblowing to me. It is so incredible people are standing by watching this happen.

I have anxiety attacks and nightmares from this bullying. I can't sleep. I can't eat. This is WRONG.

I have screenshots of Patti's daughter Sydney, messaging my daughter Tiffany telling her that Jen Green has gone over their house and screamed and sworn at her telling her to write negative accusations about me and this little girl is scared. It is beyond abuse and manipulation.

I am scared that I will lose my children. Please help us in any way that you can. I am reaching out to you as a community.

There is SO much to share about what really happened in Texas. I have respected everyone involved, but there comes a point when you can't take the abuse anymore and one needs to stand up for themselves. I am scared to come out there. I am afraid of the mental instability of those out there doing this to me. Calling CPS on us was just beyond slandering and bullying. HOW can anyone be so cruel as to do that to us?!!”

My responses:

·         I would love to believe there are no sides, but I think it is now too late for that. You singlehandedly placed a rift in the unschooling world when you appeared on the scene as an expert in 2006. I do wholeheartedly believe, though, that unschooling will recover and now the community will reemerge as a whole unit once this is over.

·         This message that you refer to as a threat is no such thing. That is someone sharing their disgust with you. That does not equal someone placing you or your family in physical danger. Are you saying this is the type of message you refer to as “threatening messages placing you in danger”?

·         You continue to use these words bullying and slandering. I have not seen one ounce of that in my blogs, anyone else’s blogs, or the clearinghouse group. I have not contacted you in any form, at all. I have written my own experience and responded to your claims posted in facebook and your blog. I have asked no one to come after you. I have not contacted authorities of any kind. Also, you do not seem to be doing your own research, AT ALL. Slandering involves lies. I have not lied about one thing, whether you are in the mood to admit it or not.

·         CPS showed up at your door? Many thoughts have run through my mind since I read that. My first thought was, did they really and how can this be proven? I simply do not believe you. Were you the only one home? Was Joe present? The kids? Can you help us to understand how terrifying that was and what they ended up saying when they left? Do you have documentation?

·         I can’t say I am surprised that you would blame my blog for the CPS visit and not your own actions over the years, but really? Have you seen the clearinghouse? Have you seen the documented evidence of your own wrongdoing that goes back over a decade? It was not me and there are plenty of other people who are pissed that you got away with this for so long. My blog gave others the ability to come together over common traumatic events and those events all involve you.

·         I have racked my brain to figure out why the CPS story would appear now. I am wondering if this is a way to get out of going through with RE, maybe? Are you waiting until the last minute to cancel and then run off with the money? Could it simply be a way to elicit more support for your “poor me” cause? I really don’t know. I hope it is not true because I don’t actually hate you enough to wish that on your children.

·         You say you would never do these things you are being accused of. So, why are you not telling your side of the story out in the open? You are treating everything the same you did a few months back. You do not want to speak to more than one person at a time, so you ask for people to send you private messages to spread your lies in the safe confines of your lie bubble. I agree the things I have said are pretty damn awful and I should know because I lived them. So, your side please?

·         You bash people for believing my own insane writings, but what about the dozens of people that have come forward to tell their own stories. You cannot say that I am doing this to you, dear. You are doing this to you. I thought you believed in the LOA. How is that working for you now?

·         Time to pay attention folks! She has now taken her problems that she created and has made it your responsibility to fix it. She is no longer just a simple manipulator. She is now asking for you to join a manipulator community so you will be responsible for the outcome and not her. These sentences stand out to me…..” It is so incredible people are standing by watching this happen” and “Please help us in any way that you can. I am reaching out to you as a community.” Help her if you feel so inclined, but educate yourself on what is really happening before you do.

·         I have no human words to express the motherfucking lie you are attempting to convey about the screenshots you claim to have of Sydni and Tiffany. I will allow Patti to respond to this and will only add…..where are the screen shots? Who is dragging the kids in to this exactly? Are you getting so desperate that you will now begin using photoshop to produce them? If you do, then find a way to timestamp it so it reflects when these Sydni and Tiffany conversations happened.

·         Why are you scared to come out here? Is this another way for you to get out of coming to RE? I have not threatened you once. I have not sent anyone to threaten you once. I am not a violent person and I am so uninterested in ever seeing you again that my family and I won’t even be in town while you are. I promise you, I will not harm anyone in your family, but you also have made a commitment to make this conference happen, so you probably should keep that promise. Keep your promise, even if you look like an ass doing it.

·         Did you really just call me mentally unstable? The one who attempted to get you help? You are a sorry excuse for a human being. That is just all there is to that statement.

The following is an email that Dayna wrote to respond to a question that asked why she took kids in to a bar……………………

I never brought a child into a bar. Ever. There may have been children of the parents that I was with who came to check in with their parents/caregivers at certain times, but it was a family event! There were kids and parents together everywhere. Also, they knew that I was under the influence. It was the responsibility of the parents to care for the children whom they brought. It would be irresponsible for them to leave me with any kids to care for on my time off, knowing I had been drinking. If a child followed me in there without me knowing, it surly wasn't my fault or responsibility. I don't remember that being the case though. There were beer tents and they were everywhere It wasn't my responsibility Period*I admit, I was very drunk It was hot out and everyone started drinking early Any other questions? It was irresponsible for them to put kids in my care, knowing I was drunk. I am sick of the blame being passed onto me. I am owning my mistakes. This was not one of them.

My response:

I think this topic may need to be covered again. This is Texas and it is not illegal to take kids in to a bar or a liquor store. The problem is not that you took them in to a bar. The problem is that you USED them to go to the bar.

The bar that we are referring to could hold about 50 people, so there was the actual bar area and then there were tables. The kids said, “we wanna go to the trampoline”. I said “we are walking that way and will get there in just a bit”. Dayna said, “hey, I can take them because I know that they are wanting to spend time with me and I can jump with them”. We said, “ok, cool, we will meet you there”. It took us about 45 minutes to mosey there. I expected them to be done and waiting, but they had just gotten into the line. I said, “wow, why are you just now in line?” and left it at that when I just got stares. It was after Dayna was gone that Sydni and Alannah told Patti, “hey, btw it was really weird having to sit in that bar with Dayna while she got drinks”. Then it all made sense. This is why it took so long for them to get to the trampoline and why they were barely in line. She made herself responsible by offering to take them. The kids said they even asked her to not go in the bar, but she said it was ok and had them sit at a table and watch her have 2 double vodkas. The kids just wanted to spend time with her. The time she had promised for days on end.

Patti Stephens has contacted me to let me know that they are having an extremely rough day today. The fact that Dayna has now involved Sydni (10yo) in another lie is really taking its toll on their sanity and peace. They are working to provide a response to Dayna’s claims and I will post it on my blog and in the clearinghouse when it is completed and sent to me…….